Mat Sci LOST fans

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Mat Sci LOST fans

Post  Stefunny on Mon May 24, 2010 1:44 am

It ended. Any fans out there wanna discuss more? I have no idea who else in the department watched it. And if you only watched 1-2 seasons or, heaven forbid, have never watched it, please refrain from commenting. Would you talk to Hersam about Solid State Physics or Quantum Mechanics if you had never even seen any of it in your life? Nope, I don't think so. You'd end up looking like a fool. So don't hate on the show if you weren't involved in the whole process. Thank you. =D
(Btw, I know plenty of converts too. People who refused to watch the show for 4-5 years, all of the sudden started watching it, and then loved it.)

Stefunny

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Series Finale

Post  Stefunny on Mon May 24, 2010 1:50 am

I'll start this off...

1. I liked it
2. Read this from Q: http://blogs.tampabay.com/media/
3. Also a fan: http://screenrant.com/lost-the-end-season-finale-spoilers-benk-61335/
4. A tweet I agree with and think that a lot of people need to hear: Don't hate - a television series that didn't just help you zone out and exist as a thoughtless potato on a couch
5. What'd you expect? All the answers handed to you on a silver platter? A narrative, didactic 30 min. interlude to explain the details of the island's mysteries?
6. Think it's a cop out? Well, these characters were all looking for something more. They were all going to die. We're all going to die. The question is how. So for them, it was either "live together or die alone" and that's where they were able to do this...on the island.
7. Character development! See how much each character has grown and changed through the whole story? All their struggles? Fears? Crushed dreams? Shady pasts? Together they all somehow each conquered these and it would only have been possible on the island and through meeting the other Losties.

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Re: Mat Sci LOST fans

Post  adler on Mon May 24, 2010 3:39 am

Regardless of what answers we had hoped for or deserved, I feel they copped out big time. "Turns out the sideverse is the afterlife." Big deal. They put the 'Deus' into 'Deus Ex Machina' big time.

Now, I understand the theme: what we're doing is important to us at the time we're doing it and we will all die and all that matters is who we did it with. But, I wish they had stuck with the island and had made the 'alternate universe' a bit more than what it was in the end *in relation to the island.* Why not honor the Lost universe they took so long to create and in the final episode do something with that universe other than extrapolate and abstract the whole 6 seasons into a trite lesson.

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Re: Mat Sci LOST fans

Post  Q on Mon May 24, 2010 10:02 am

Stefunny wrote:
7. Character development! See how much each character has grown and changed through the whole story? All their struggles? Fears? Crushed dreams? Shady pasts? Together they all somehow each conquered these and it would only have been possible on the island and through meeting the other Losties.

I think is the biggest thing that is dividing people who liked it and people who didn't. The show was about the characters in the grand scheme of things as Stephanie is saying, rather than all of the mysteries of the island. I think they gave all of the answers that we needed to know in order to follow the lives of the LOSTies. There were some (those on the Ajira plane, Hugo, Ben) that we don't know the full story of in between the battle between Smokey/MiB/Flocke and Jack and the afterlife/purgatory/sideverse, but we did see the main protagonist's story come full circle. I haven't brushed up on my comparative literature notes from undergrad, but I think Jack's story fulfills the hero's quest/hero's journey/monomyth that Campbell wrote about ( Monomyth Wiki ) and applies to narratives all over. (I remember having to compare the movie Contact with Jodie Foster to Homer's The Odyssey based on this theory of story telling).

Now with that being said, would I have liked some other answers to some of the island mysteries? Sure...but I understand why they didn't sit and spell out every mystery. It's not what the show was all about. I think they gave enough answers to tell a great narrative about some great characters both good & bad depending on your point of view.

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If you still need more answers...

Post  Stefunny on Tue May 25, 2010 1:05 am

From someone reportedly on the inside at Bad Robot... GOOD READ!

http://forum.lostpedia.com/someone-bad-robots-take-finale-t59261.html?s=6e9bf51f3f27674b3fe599a860f9a1d2&s=9c7a508dc02932a9d4e0f03d02064661&amp

Someone from Bad Robots take on the finale

Quote:

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

Stefunny

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Lost fix

Post  mseniw on Tue May 25, 2010 11:37 pm

To bring you down gently from your Lost high. Here are 13 weeks of movies for you to rent to get your fix of mystery, action, revenge, kindness, oddities, love, monsters, agony, evil, good, mind bending, time travel, flashbacks, flashforwards, confusion, murder, and redemption.
Listed in no particular order...or are they?

Jacob's Ladder
Old Boy
Primer
District 9
11:14
12 Monkeys
The Number 23
Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind
Memento
Butterfly Effect
Donnie Darko
The Departed
John Carpenter's The Thing
The Jacket

mseniw

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A LOST Comic

Post  Stefunny on Thu May 27, 2010 1:33 pm



Last edited by Stefunny on Thu May 27, 2010 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

Stefunny

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Hurley spoils the ending to LOST on Twitter by checking in on Foursquare

Post  Stefunny on Thu May 27, 2010 4:18 pm


Stefunny

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Re: Mat Sci LOST fans

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